SWEENEY TODD

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Anyone who bemoans the (imagined) vocal shortcomings of the film’s two leads automatically ceases to qualify as an opinion-holder worthy of my time. Don’t even get me started on that “Sondheim’s crappy songs” comment…Wait - reading your Scissorhands article, turns out you’re just a bit of a Burton detractor all round. Do you also badmouth Miyazaki for lacing his films with his rucurrent directorial trademarks and predilections?

Comment by Justin | March 30, 2008

@ Justin - Thank you for your hilarious comment!
I do not care for Sondheim’s songs in this play/film. However, I give the songs somewhat of a pass in this review because, as I said, the film chops up the songs and/or deletes some in favor of the running time. But I absolutely do not think these songs represent anywhere near the best of Sondheim’s work.
While I understand that actors can bring material to life by means other than their singing ability, in this case nearly the entire film is SUNG by the actors. And when you have two leads in a MUSICAL who cannot sing very well, you’re already on shaky ground. In this film, I don’t think Depp or Carter bring anything so unique to their roles that they could not have been replaced by people with good singing voices.
Imagine, for instance, what Ewan Macgregor - who has a wonderful singing voice - could have brought to this role instead of Depp. I think you should be able to see my point.
As far as Burton goes, I personally love EDWARD SCISSORHANDS. I own it. I didn’t bash the film in my retrospective. However, unlike a lot of fanboys, I refuse to look through rose colored glasses about Burton. He has shown certain repetitive weaknesses - almost stubbornly so - that have continued to plague his filmography. I will not accept garbage like PLANET OF THE APES and CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY simply because they are Burton films filled to brim with weird, exotic imagery. Just because MARS ATTACKS is visually rich doesn’t mean the rest of it isn’t pointlessly stupid.
I think Burton has a lot of potential, and he has wasted some of it over the course of his career. He needs to grow up. It’s time for him to start testing out his own worth as a director by expanding his dramatic and visual palette. It’s time for him to let go of Depp for one or two films, and try something else. That is not hate on my part. I think I am being reasonable and balanced instead. 
 

Comment by Ray | March 30, 2008

I think Depp brought a lot to the character of Sweeney Todd. His voice clearly isn’t strong but his performance is consistent and small, kinda manageable.

A lot of performances of Todd I’ve seen go off on a tangent which is to be expected with a live performance for sure but Depp always stays true to the character he created.

If we are purely talking about a film, I think I would prefer real actors with depth than people who can sing. I do like Ewan McGregor but I’m not sure he go dark enough for this. I’ve never particularly taken to him as a real menacing villain.

And his singing voice is a little too on the romantic side of things.

Comment by Matt Holmes | March 31, 2008

I can agree with what you said here:
“If we are purely talking about a film, I think I would prefer real actors with depth than people who can sing.”
However, I don’t think Depp really brings anything to the role that is untouchable or especially interesting. Any menace is on the over-the-top side of things, and most decent actors could pull it off. I have no doubt MacGregor could.

Comment by Ray | March 31, 2008

I hear what you’re saying about Burton. Unless he has a really, really strong script on his side, he tends to lose the plot a little bit. He’s not a very good story teller. But he did an awesome job with Sweeney Todd, script-wise. He was brutal with the musical, chopping down Sondheim’s excessive, repetetive, and clunky songs into a streamlined and coherent film. He cut fan favourites like The Ballad of Sweeney Todd, because they simply would not work in a film version. Too many musical movies are too scared, and simply film the entire freaking show, which does not work. Blow me, Schumacher. I like Depp as Sweeney. It’s easy to go over the top and melodramatic with the role (I’ve seen it happen), which he avoided.

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Pingback by Thrillpeddlers » More Reviews of the Sweeney Todd DVD | March 31, 2008

Your an idiot. I’m not a Burton fan, batman was painful etc… but I think your comments about hating musicals says it all. Your biased and aren’t even considering your own frame of reference when you wrote your review. I don’t like musicals either but can always appeciate something that’s well crafted, which this movie was. The whole story is structured on ironic contrast. Burton did it beautifully. I was joyed at how well Depp sung. You want a deeper emotion than what he gave? Are you considering he’s tormented and his phyche is isolated in a cage? That he’s in his own world with only one motive? Obviously not. Johnny Depp played that part brilliantly.

Comment by michael | April 1, 2008

@ Michael - Geez, calm down. How can you possibly say that I am not “considering my own frame of reference when I wrote the review?” My opening sentences revealed quite clearly my admission that I don’t generally care for musicals. What the hell else do you want?? I certainly put it aside to watch the film, and I attempted to do so with as much fairness as is possible being an imperfect human being.
 
However, I didn’t care for the songs in this musical as much as other Sondheim songs in some of his other musicals, which I consider to be better. I am openly tired of Burton’s “style,” which he has stamped on every single film in his catalogue regardless of the material. I thought Depp’s performance relied far too much on his usual tics and mannerisms, which I would triangulate somewhere between Jack Sparrow, Willy Wonka, and Ed Wood. And, in my mind, the singing was not great at all.
 
I think the story is a good one. From a technical standpoint, everything was top-notch. And frankly, this is probably the first Burton film that didn’t disintegrate at the end … largely due to the fact that this material came completely from someone else. But all of that is faint praise indeed.
 
If you’ll notice, I did give the film 2.5 stars out of five … that ain’t great, but it ain’t bad… especially since I don’t care much for musicals, unlike you and your boyfriend.

Comment by Ray | April 1, 2008

Wow, I drop back here for the first time since posting to see if you’d replied, and instead I find you making homophobic slurs at the expense of your readership.Well played.

Comment by Justin | April 1, 2008

@ Justin - Yeah, well … when the “readership” decides to get onto the site and call me an idiot in a public forum for no apparent reason, I decide to fight back. Sorry if this offends you.

Comment by Ray | April 1, 2008

But you are an idiot. You’re an idiot because you acknowledge you hate musicals ( which is really your way of justifying or excusing the slam your about to make ) but yet don’t have enough self reflection to get that your multi bias viewpoints ( which you list ) have tainted your observation, or suggestive viewing of the film, at the time of the watching of the film. I’m not talking about your reflection or critique of the film after the fact. I suggest…you rewatch the film and look at it from a different viewpoint. Try it from looking at the values and see how well, if well at all, they fit together. All the values. Be objective at every moment. I hope you do, I hope you show me your not an idiot. And while the idiot folder is still open, you’ll see in my post I said I hated musicals as well. I have no idea if my boyfriend does or not. :)

Comment by michael | April 1, 2008

But you are an idiot. You’re an idiot because you acknowledge you hate musicals ( which is really your way of justifying or excusing the slam your about to make ) but yet don’t have enough self reflection to get that your multi bias viewpoints ( which you list ) has tainted your observation, or suggestive viewing of the film, at the time of the watching of the film. I’m not talking about your reflection or critique of the film after the fact. I suggest…you rewatch the film and look at it from a different viewpoint. Try it from looking at the values and see how well, if well at all, they fit together. All the values. Be objective at every moment. I hope you do, I hope you show me your not an idiot. And while the idiot folder is still open, you’ll see in my post I said I hated musicals as well. I have no idea if my boyfriend does or not. :)

Comment by michael | April 1, 2008

Sorry for the double post, the first screen said there was an error. The idiot folder is now buried and put away. Depp can’t not be Depp. There will always be some traces of the actor in the role from the audiences position ( though it looks like Thomas Jane could play any role and get away with it ). Depps singing was fine. In fact it was really good. It should be, he was in a band before he acted. Have a relisten.

Comment by michael | April 1, 2008

@ Michael - First of all, I do not find myself compelled to take the advice of someone who, unprovoked, has called me an idiot repeatedly.
 
Secondly, I have seen the movie twice. I watched it during its theatrical run, and then watched it again for the DVD review.
 
I do, of course, like some of Johnny Depp’s performances. Mainly, though, I prefer him outside of the “Burtonverse.” His performance as Edward in SCISSORHANDS was perfect, and he was very good as Ed Wood as well. Uusually, though, Depp becomes too manic and mannered under Burton’s direction; probably much of this has to do with the fact that Burton himself seems incapable of letting go of his very mannered fantasy film motif. Depp’s subtle performances reveal his true acting prowess much better than his very costumed and outrageous ones, in my opinion.
 
As far as his singing, I am aware that he performed in a rock band, although I thought he was mainly the guitarist for the group. He might have enough of a voice for rock singing - I mean, Mick Fucking Jagger is the lead singer of a band, and so is Robert Smith of the Cure, and neither of them could carry a tune with 10,000 Hebrew slaves. But I am very, very sure that Depp cannot properly sing Broadway showtunes.
 
Instead of berating me endlessly over this review, perhaps it might be wiser for you to realize that two human beings are capable of having different viewpoints on the same event. You have made it abundantly clear to me that you loved every croaking, over-articulated fart that emitted from Depp’s orifice, you are overwhelmingly in love with Burton’s dark and “wacky” vision, and that anything involved with this production represents the pinnacle of human achievement.
I happen to disagree. Get over it.   

Comment by Ray | April 1, 2008

But were not two human beings having a disagreement in this venue. Your a critic who can’t stand being critiqued ( Lol, isn’t that hypocritical? ) and I’m your heckler because I think your show, in this playing…stinks. Get the irony? So Ray, you need to get over it. You made yourself part of a cycle, own it. And Ray, a final piece of advice, don’t fall so in love with yor own word usage that you start putting words in other peoples mouths. I never said the production was the pinnacle of human achievement, though I do thinks it’s very very good.

Comment by michael | April 2, 2008

@ Michael - I have no problem being critiqued. That is not the issue.
I plainly said from the outset that I don’t generally like musicals, which is an obvious way to admit my own biased opinions on the genre. So you calling me an idiot for lacking appreciation for something when I plainly admit it myself is fairly idiotic in its own right, not to mention rude.
Of course, you aptly supplied to proof of your own idiocy when you gave me the above “advice.” I never quoted you as having said that the film was “the pinnacle of human achievement.” Anyone unable to see that as anything other than sarcasm must be a mouth-breathing fucktard, or a fan of this movie. A coin flip would probably best determine into which category you fall.
Instead of wasting my time, your time, and OWF’s valuable server space with your pointless attempts to change my mind or insult me, why don’t you put your pristine copy of SWEENEY TODD into the DVD player, have your boyfriend insert his swollen member into your freshly-lubed ass, and reach the pinnacle of human orgasm.  I have no doubt that any of your final, ejaculatory screams of ecstacy will be a more pleasant listen than any of the notes screeched by Depp or Carter from the shadows of this pointless production.

Comment by Ray | April 2, 2008

Does this conversation have to degenerate even further by debating the difference between someone ( you ) warping anothers statements ( me ) by adding additional word content which houses meanings of things which I never meant nor said, against actual quotations? You know what I meant.
 And as I partially said ( which you should have easily understood ) you think yourself quite the wordsmith and smart with your comments but miss out on the realization that using lowbrow comments to defend yourself instead of staying on point makes you look like a tard. Still Ray, I did laugh, I’ll give that point to you.
Seriously, no hard feelings Ray. Ironically I really did enjoy reading the spew of slam directed at me. I look forward to your next review.

Comment by michael | April 2, 2008

@ Michael - Ugh. Paint yourself as the martyr here, but I will (once again) point out that you decided to call me an idiot first. If you cannot see that this is an unnecessary and unprovoked attack, then I have given you far too much credit with this series of responses.

Comment by Ray | April 3, 2008

Ray didn’t you write this?
 
 Stephen Sondheim’s crappy songs are truncated, only adding to the annoyance.
Johnny Depp dons yet another tangled wig, wriggling his eyebrows and widening his eyes to try and bring Sweeney Todd’s obsessive quest to life. It’s a weak performance -
 If the fucking characters need to sing, then at least give us actors who can carry a tune. Watching Depp and Carter wring any kind of emotion out of these limp Sondheim songs is excruciating. Better singers could have at least provided some vocal fireworks, but out of the throats of Depp and Carter they take on a cringe-worthy tone. Throughout the film I waited for someone to grab a razor and slit their throats.
Overall, the film is beautiful to watch, painful to hear, and utterly pointless.
 
Depp or Carter from the shadows of this pointless production.
 
You can’t “attack” something and then cry foul if you in turn are attacked. You might feel you were, ah hmmm…attacked from the rear, but you were attacking the production staff of the movie from the rear as well. If you reserve the right to play critic then fine so be it. I give you that right and I support it, at times critics are valuable. I in turn reserve the right to play critic in my own right. As I said, you’ve made yourself a part of a cycle. I have too, I’m not crying foul that you’ve attacked me or if anyone attacks me back, in fact I expect it. I only criticised the way you did it. I’m not playing martyr. As I said I enjoyed and did laugh at some of your comebacks ( even if I thought they were over the top  ) and I meant it. And despite the comments made by you of the film which I mentioned I thought you were being self indulgent over, I apprecitated your other comments of the film and DVD structure.

Comment by michael | April 3, 2008

Ray didn’t you attack the film with a lot of harsh comments that, in theory, could hurt the production film staffs feelings?
You can’t “attack” something and then cry foul if you in turn are attacked. You might feel you were, ah hmmm…attacked from the rear, but you were attacking the production staff of the movie from the rear as well. If you reserve the right to play critic then fine so be it. I give you that right and I support it, at times critics are valuable. I in turn reserve the right to play critic in my own right. As I said, you’ve made yourself a part of a cycle. I have too, I’m not crying foul that you’ve attacked me or if anyone attacks me back, in fact I expect it. I only criticised the way you did it. I’m not playing martyr. As I said I enjoyed and did laugh at some of your over the top comebacks and I meant it.
 
If this double posts I apologize, the first posting didn’t show up.

Comment by michael | April 3, 2008

Three posts and not one word about SWEENEY TODD… I think that calls for an end of discussion, don’t you guys?

Comment by Matt Holmes | April 3, 2008

for the michael guy, the point of this movie was not to have pretty songs like what you hear on the radio.  if your going to critizise something you need to understand the basis of it and obviously you dont, the music was composed to express pain, hatred, love, and any other feeling this movie had in it and it had a lot.  If you knew anything about music (good or bad) you try to understand the feelings going into the song so chill.  And stop insulting people its ruid didn’t you no that.  Anyway i loved this movie its a good combination of revenge and repentance.

Comment by tess | April 10, 2008

Meh. I regret even clicking the link for this page.

Comment by None of your damn business | April 24, 2008

I appreciate two people having very different opinions, or someone defending his or her position, as that can only be expected. I would certainly be extremely pissed off if someone called me an idiot.

However, what I find really insulting, and completely unnecessary, is the insults directed at gay people, and the blatant homophobic slurs. How is that at all necessary, or even make any sense? “I think you are an asshole so….I’m going to say you’re gay?” What started out as a decent argument for defending one’s point of view has become a middle school argument and homophobic name-calling. How sad.

Comment by mandy | May 12, 2008

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