Daredevil is “fairly lame”?

For many years, it’s been one of the best written, most character-driven and thought-provoking books on the newsstand. There is more symbolism, and more examination of the deeper workings of a vigilante’s mind, faith, and the true meaning of justice in a modern Daredevil comic than in most other comics.

Likewise, Captain America has always been one of the comics to consistently attract top talent in the industry, and the recent years have found it ranked among the greatest comics available and some of the finest ever written.

The claim that most comic book characters are “lame superheros” (aside from the three mentioned at the start) is woefully uninformed, or arises from a pretty questionable sense of taste and quality. And this is especially true when some of the characters explicitly singled out for mention — like Daredevil, Captain America, and the Fantastic Four (one of the most innovative and intelligent comic book creations ever invented, and one that forever changed the thematic tone of modern comics, for godsake) — are in fact renowned as some of the best available or some of the most influential and long-lived precisely due to how not-lame they really are.

Well, it would be helpful to have recited it to you directly, since that would mean I could also show you a few examples from those books, some articles and books about the history of comics and how influential some of those books were, and some of the reviews and awards won in recent years by Daredevil and Captain America.

You can laugh all you want, but why you’d find it amusing to have your comments fall flat in the face of informed opinion is hard to imagine. If you actually contest whether or not the FF were a huge influence, among the most intelligent writing and innovative books in the genre, and whether or not CA and Daredevil have enjoyed several years of acclaim for the high quality of their writing and artwork — including winning awards — then you’d be contesting those points despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

You can feel they are “lame” all you want, it is of course a subjective opinion. It just happens to be an opinion either based on being totally uninformed about the content of those books and their history, or an opinion that demonstrates pretty low quality assessment and taste. But feel free to assert that the history and evidence and awards and content are not important, and that they are still “lame” — funny stuff, definitely worthy of a good laugh, indeed.

What the fuck does Superman teach us about ourselves? That’s what I want to know. Your argument that comics have to teach us something about ourselves makes you sound like some old guy pissed at some kids for being on his grass.

Go by a comic section at your local bookstore. There are almost as many Captain America books as Spider-Man books. He’s not some second rate superhero that only comic nerds know about, which might not be what you are trying to say, but it seems that way to me.

Daredevil I do have to agree with you doesn’t deserve his own film. Yeah his comics have always been pretty solid writing wise, but he really doesn’t have the star power to carry a film by himself. Plus, he has no real arch nemesis that they can develop through a series of movies to fight him.

I honestly think that that is the problem with most comic movies is that they introduce a villain then kill him within that same film. Instead of that, why not introduce a big time super villain and develop him throughout a couple movies while having the hero fight more small time villains? Is it that inconceivable that Doc Oc from Spider-Man would have had some sort of henchman for Spider-Man to fight instead of fighting him himself from the start? You could use just about anyone outside of Venom or Carnage and it would have worked.

Oh, spare me the “geeks” and “vaginas” childishness. Who here wrote an article about comic books in the first place? It’s not rolled-up back issues you need to pull out of someplace, it’s your head. And judging by where it’s stuffed, you’ll indeed get a deep breath once you pull it out.

I could just as easily say Superman teaches us why it looks silly to put your red underwear on the outside of your pants, and why it’s stupid to wear a cape when you can fly. But Captain America teaches us about why we have to hold on to and fight for our ideals of freedom lest they be stripped away by our own government (yes, much of his time in the comics is spent fighting AGAINST the government, like for almost the last decade for example), that the flag is in fact just a piece of cloth that’s only a symbol so long as it represents the ideals of justice and freedom it is supposed to stand for, and that life is precious and should only be sacrificed for the greatest of causes — liberty.

Captain America has, since the early 1980s, increasingly moved toward representing the idea of a hero clad in the stars and stripes who finds himself and his “old-fashioned” beliefs standing in stark contrast to the modern world. He thought the battle against Nazism in WWII would set the USA on a course to shine as a beacon for all nations and people struggling to overcome tyranny and achieve liberation. Instead, he sees a cold world where the flag and patriotism are used as propaganda to rally troops and citizens behind deeds as tyrannical and morally objectionable as the very things he thought he and his nation existed to fight against. This has been the defining narrative of the character since about the early 1980s, and it became the core theme of his comics for the past decade (in which, among other things, he lead a team of other characters in a Civil War against the government and other superheros).

Yet you attempt to speak about the character and what he’s about and “teaches us” despite clearly being ignorant of anything going on in his books. And when it’s pointed out to you, instead of realizing that you were mistaken about pretty much everything you uttered regarding the character (and others) you just puff up your chest and toss out moronic lines about geeks and vaginas, before further demonstrating your ignorance of the subject.

If you are going to get your feathers so ruffled when someone points out that you’re wrong, you should probably avoid writing articles about topics of which you’re ignorant.

Superman indeed teaches us about the need to use our abilities for good, to stand up for what’s right and try to make the world a better place. But so do most other comic book characters, to varying degrees. The point is whether that theme is done well or not. There are certainly plenty of books that I’d say do it very poorly, and others that do it the best.

To point to Superman and act as if he’s the only one representing that “lesson” is just absurd, especially when you’re reaching for that point as a failed attempt to justify acting like Captain America of all characters doesn’t represent the same “lesson”. Not to mention that, among fans and the industry and awards, Captain America’s focus on that narrative theme happens to be hailed as among the finest in print for the past decade.

You can keep flailing around as if these facts don’t exist, but it’s pointless to do so. Better to realize you were speaking from ignorance on the topic which YOU chose to write an article about, and do a little research to confirm that, yes, Captain America and Daredevil have been among the most acclaimed series for many years now, that they speak to strong themes and social issues in intelligent and important ways found in too few comics (or other literature) these days, and then cease further silly remarks that only demonstrate how uninformed you are. Oh, and how hypocritical, in light of being the dude who wrote the article about comic books and what Superman can teach us, and then dancing around yelling “geeks” and “vagina” like some 8 year old with Tourette’s.

@KC:

Actually, Daredevil does have several really great villains. Bullseye, Kingpin, Elektra (a villain/hero in the film and sometimes in the comics, but overall she’s been an antagonist as often as a friend), The Hand, The Owl (the name sounds cheesy, for sure, but in modern stories he’s terrific), and Typhoid Mary (again, the name gives you pause, but she’s a really original and twisted villain with some great imagery to boot). Daredevil’s collection of mobster villains alongside Kingpin is pretty solid, on par with Batman’s in fact and really becoming central to the stories for the last decade.

If they made film adaptations of the “Yellow” GN, Frank Miller’s stories focusing on The Hand and Elektra, Miller’s “Born Again” storyline, and then some of Bendis and Brubaker stories of the last decade, there’s enough material there to create a film franchise of at least five to six really great stories that could rival “The Dark Knight” in quality, imagery, and great supporting cast and villains. They need someone on par with Chris Nolan who takes the character seriously and brings a really great eye for telling crime stories (which is what most of Daredevil is anymore) and making really outrageous characters seem not only plausible but entirely believable.

I’d love to see them get a director like Fernando Meirelles (he made the incredible “City of God”) or Uli Edel, and an actor like Peter Sarsgaard or Ryan Gosling for the title role, with a script by someone like Robert Ludlum, Neal Purvis, and/or maybe David Hayter (getting Ludlum and Hayter to collaborate on it would be excellent). With that sort of top-notch talent at the helm, adapting from the stories mentioned above, we could get a Daredevil franchise to rival any other comic book film series.

For a guy who wrote an article about which comic book characters teach you about yourself, and then got his undies in a wad when I pointed out how banal his comments were, you have a funny little attitude. Calm down? Hmm, I’m just the dude pointing out why your remarks are moronic and painfully uninformed. I’m not the author who can’t admit he was talking out the wrong end and freaking out over criticisms.

Fanboys who prattle on about the superhero they love and why he’s the only worthwhile one, and how all the others are “lame”, look silly trying to play the “you’re just a geek who likes comic books” card. Grow up, kid, and learn to take criticism. Or, as an alternative, don’t write dumb things in public. Either one will be a big improvement.

And make no mistake (a tall order for you, I know), you’re “wrong”. You didn’t just state an opinion — you posted a comment saying “Captain America teaches us about American dominance and imperialism in the world. Nice lesson.” Which is so ignorant and inaccurate that yeah, it qualifies as “wrong”. If I said Superman teaches us that aliens can’t fly and are never raised by farmers, would that be “wrong” or “my entirely valid personal subjective opinion?” It’d be stupid, that’s what it’d be. Like your comments about Captain America.

Face it, just don’t want to admit you were entirely uninformed about some of the characters you commented on, and that your remarks look pretty stupid in light of the history and awards and so on, not to mention a glaringly absurd interpretation of what Captain America represents. I provided you with “copious amounts” of information on the character because you apparently don’t know ANY information about the character, despite having a strong opinion on the matter ((strong enough to write an article about, and strong enough to whine at me in the comments section when I just pointed out that your comments look moronic in light of the quality of some of the books you singled out).

You’re the one who wrote the article, so don’t try and play like I’m some bizarro-guy for coming along and actually knowing something about the topic you chose to write about, slick. It’s not my fault you pick topics you’re ignorant on, or that you seem to form such strong views about things you mostly know nothing about.

@mark
I admit that my knowledge of Daredevil is fairly limited as to who he fights in his comics. He’s never been a particular favorite of mine. Some of those villain names make me want to go find a few comics though and check them out.

…said the kid who wrote an article all about it, then threw a little tantrum when someone came along to point out his article is stupid and his freaking out in the comments section is juvenile.

I didn’t realize you get so defensive and embarrassed over being wrong about superheros, Ray. Go write another uninformed article and then cry when someone else points out you don’t know what you’re talking about.

^My comment there is to Ray, not KC.

Yes, you could lack understanding of the fact you’re writing on OBSESSED with Film, about superheros, and arguing repeatedly about why your favorite superheros are the “cool” ones who “teach”you about yourself. Which means you look like a moron trying to puff out your chest and act like “dude, comics be lame and shit, dude”.

But it might be useful to you to keep this in mind: It’s a COMMENT SECTION, but you haven’t been able to let it go. So yeah, keep acting like a little snot-nose, and I’ll keep poking at you for being a little snot-nose. And yeah, there IS “right or wrong here” — you just still ain’t grasped it yet, sparky. When you argue a particular comic represents things that are the exact opposite of what they represent, then you are “wrong”.

Now come on, make with some more “LOL” and banal statements about how just because you write an article about comic books on OBSESSED With Film, it’s not like you care or nuthin’, and how being moronic in public is just your opinion. LOL — did I do that right?